Episode 11 | How Strategic Property Investing Can Build Your Financial Future - with Travis Breheney from Genesis Wealth
In this episode of the Enriched Wealth Podcast, Kris Tatt sits down with Travis Breheney, Director of Genesis Wealth, to unpack the real power of strategic property investing.
Travis shares his journey from banking to real estate to helping clients build wealth through smart property purchases — with a focus on long-term outcomes, portfolio planning, and understanding market cycles.
They dive into:
What a buyer’s agent really does (and why it matters)
How different states and markets across Australia are behaving
Common property investment mistakes — and how to avoid them
The importance of building a property portfolio that fuels your next purchase, not holds you back
Why understanding vacancy rates, land tax, finance structures, and timing is crucial
If you’re looking to take a strategic, well-informed approach to property investing and avoid costly mistakes, this is an episode you won't want to miss.
Transcript
Kris Tatt
Welcome to the Enriched Wealth Podcast.
Today we've got an exciting guest.
We've got Travis joining us today, director of Genesis Wealth, and we're here to talk about property.
Welcome, Travis.
Excited to have you on the show and I'm excited to get into it.
Welcome.
Travis Breheney
Thank you very much, Kris.
Great to be here.
Kris Tatt
Thank you.
And Travis, I want to start off to talk about who you are because you are part of a group that are buyers agents.
And we were talking before the show, there's a lot of misconceptions out there on what a buyers agent might be or people might not even know what it is.
So I thought, let's, let's preface, let's start there and then we can work backwards here.
A bit of your story about how you even got into being a buyers agent.
And then let's talk about clients and, and all the other things.
So what what?
What is a buyers agent?
Travis Breheney
Yeah, good question.
It's I think it's one of those things that people don't have a lot of understanding around.
Everyone knows what a real estate agent is.
Yep, as we were talking together before the show, there's a misconception that the real estate agent is there to help the buyer.
And a lot of them say they do that.
But Yep, at the end of the day, it's the, it's the seller who's paying the real estate agent.
And their job essentially is to get the best result for the person selling a property where our job is actually in reverse.
Our job is actually to get the best result for the buyer, not only in that transaction, but when we look at putting strategies together for clients.
It's about working towards long term goals and using property to do it.
Kris Tatt
Yeah, excellent.
So it is, it is a bit more of a holistic approach.
It is for those people who are going, I want to build a portfolio of properties or I want to get that investment property.
Maybe I don't know where to start or I've done a little bit of research on realestate.com.
But I, I, I'm not really that confident knowing what's the market doing what is a good deal.
And, and a lot of times you, well, I, I even know you can look at property and it's different between suburbs, it's different between cities, states, all of those kind of things.
So are you, are you, are you solely focused on a geographical area or is it more about understanding the client 1st and then sort of working backwards through that?
Travis Breheney
Yeah, so we're licenced in all states, so we're able to purchase properties in all states across Australia.
They're all different and you must be licensed.
But yeah, you hit it right on the head, Chris.
It's about knowing the client, knowing what their goals are, knowing their profile, their personality, and also their, you know, their risk profile as well.
So everyone's different.
Yes, Yeah.
So we just need to make sure we understand what the the client's wanting, what they're comfortable, what they're comfortable with, what they're looking to achieve.
And then we go and implement a plan to execute that over X many years.
Kris Tatt
Great.
And you're, you're part of that research process, aren't you're really out there finding the right properties that meet a client's what they're looking for really isn't it saying if you want growth, that's that's what we'll go and look for.
If you want rental returns, I'm assuming that's all part of the process and.
Travis Breheney
100% And that's another myth too.
A lot of people think that and in some cases it's true, but a lot of people think that we need to compromise yield for growth or growth for yield where that's a myth.
There are, there are opportunities out there where we can get growth and yield and that's what we that's the, that's the space we like to operate in with our clients.
Kris Tatt
Nice.
And and what I, I guess that comes is it research what, what, what are you, what are you out there doing to, to find those properties?
Obviously not just putting your finger up to the wind and hoping to find, find the right one.
But I, I, yeah, is that, is that part of your that's part of your process at the end of the day is really going out and researching the areas, the spots.
Travis Breheney
100% yeah.
And that changes over time too.
So we've all probably heard what a property cycle.
Yep.
You know, so each, each location has a property cycle.
So there are times to buy, there are times to sell, you know those sort of things.
You know what's happening in the area with, with supply and demand and construction and infrastructure and all those sort of bits and pieces.
That's right.
So we've, we know the property investment tends to work on waves.
So it's a matter of working out where, where is that wave cycle taking place?
Is it early?
Is it just about finished?
Is it time to buy in this location, or is it time to buy in somewhere else where it's about to start?
A.
Kris Tatt
Lot of factors involved isn't there.
Travis Breheney
Yeah, there's.
There certainly is and properties.
It's one of those things where it's not cheap to enter into and it's not cheap to get out of.
Kris Tatt
And it's a bit of a long term commitment, isn't it?
It's not just something you can, it is going today, you can get out tomorrow and things like that.
And I think that's sometimes a misconception with all investments is, you know, people look at shares and go, well, I can buy them today and some tomorrow.
But if if you came and talked to us would would be saying it's, it's a five to seven year journey with shares.
You don't just get in today and hopefully you make a quick buck and you get out.
It's about understanding those time frames, those how long is that investment cycle for you?
How long do you want to hold this property, hold these shares and things like that.
So I think all of that comes into play, that's really good.
Hopefully for those listening, it gives a bit of a context on what buys it and we're going to dig much more into it as we go along.
But Travis, I'd love to hear a bit about your journey on, on how you came into being a buyer's agent, bit of your background, bit of where you studied those kind of things.
So, so so take us on the journey.
How did it all start for you, Bendigo boy?
Or.
Travis Breheney
Bendigo born and bred Yep, Yep, 3rd, 4th generation or whatever it is.
So yeah, it did.
Grew up in Bendigo, started work at the Bendigo Bank back in the day when I was 19.
So that was a few years ago now and spent nearly 10 years there, did lots of things.
So that was, it was a lot different back in those days.
You got to be exposed to a lot of different opportunities.
Very, very early, yes.
So started lending.
So I've got a very strong lending background, you know, doing loans and so forth for people.
Kris Tatt
Obviously gives you a really strong lever into property and things.
Travis Breheney
Like 100%, yeah, 100% I got to see very early.
I think I was doing loans, home loans for people when I was 21 or something like that.
Yeah, I was very young and I got to, I just got to a.
Kris Tatt
Little bit different now.
Travis Breheney
Looks a lot different now, 100% and I got to see.
I got to see just the numbers and how that works and the passive income that was possible back then.
And, and, and so I guess I fell into that by accident, but I just saw an opportunity for me personally that I just couldn't say no to.
So, you know, come 22, bought my first property, didn't necessarily have a lot of savings in the back of that point, but I, I knew how to work the system.
So I worked the system and got myself a property pretty much without any savings.
And a year later, a year and a half later, I think it was bought my second one and and so forth.
And by the time I was 25 or so, I think I had about four or five properties.
Wow.
Yeah.
And I didn't know what I was doing, but it just seemed to work.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know.
And so, so that was while I was in banking.
I did my accounting degree while I was working at the bank at night.
OK.
Took a long time.
Yep.
Realised I didn't want to be an accountant.
That wasn't quite for me.
But I like the numbers.
When I was about 27, expecting a first child, I, I knew I I was in love with property, but I knew banking wasn't quite for me.
Yep.
So I I quit the job there and and become a real estate agent.
So listed and sold properties as a real estate agent for a number of years.
Yes, that wasn't quite what I was looking for either, for various reasons.
So I got back into banking and then eventually got into the building industry, OK.
So yeah, work for three different builders over 8 year.
Or something like that in management and sales.
OK, I.
Kris Tatt
Was going to say not on the tools.
Travis Breheney
Not on the tools, no.
I've got bankers hands mate.
There's a there's a very precious hands.
Kris Tatt
I was going to say that that'd be a big transition to be up on the roof and.
Travis Breheney
Yeah, I picked up a pen the other day and I've got a callus from so, yeah.
So, so I look back now and it's, it's, it's really when I look back and look at the banking, you know, banking, the actual real estate experience and the, and the construction experience and that as well and personal investing.
It's, it's, it's sort of fell into that buyer space.
I'm passionate.
I've always been passionate about helping people create passive income and, and have a lifestyle that suits them, you know, and I think.
Kris Tatt
That's I was having a look doing a little bit of research before we caught up today and I love that vision.
Do you want to do you want to mention that vision while?
Travis Breheney
We're on it as well.
The mission statement of the company.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, for sure.
So mission statement of the company is to help 100 families replace their full time income by 2035 through property investing so they can have the time and the resources, time and the resources to do what's important to them with their life.
We only live once yes.
You know, we spend a lot when I do it right, we spend a lot of time working for the man or doing this and doing that and and so, yeah, we just want to try to help people.
I love that choices.
Kris Tatt
Helping helping change 100 lives.
Travis Breheney
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Kris Tatt
That's great, that's really good.
And and hearing your journey about that experience, it just seems like everything was pointing towards this point.
Like you've sort of you've, you've been on the banking end of the sky, you've gone and bought and sold properties, you understand how the construction side works.
So really the next step is saying, well, how do we now help buyers get into this property market with all that experience you come with and, and doing it yourself as well too.
I think sometimes, yeah, people can can be giving this advice without actually experience or without actually working it themselves where you've actually sort of gone through that process yourself on top of doing all these other areas.
So I think that's that's that's great.
Travis Breheney
Yeah, it's an interesting 1 you brought up because I do see that quite a lot.
You know, you look on social media and all these sort of things and everyone's everyone's a property expert, but you go how many, how many properties have you purchased or what have, what have you actually done?
And and, you know, there might be school teachers or something like that and sick of it.
And then next year they're property experts.
So by accident, I won't, I won't take the credit to say I've engineered this, but just by accident, it's been quite complimentary.
So yeah, it's very useful.
Kris Tatt
Yeah.
And I think that that obviously gives you great experience when you're going into that research mode to be able to go, I know what I'm looking for.
I know I understand what's going on with how long builds take.
I understand how long this this, this is going to need to come online and those kind of things as well, which that forward looking would be invaluable to strategy and things like that, I'd imagine.
Travis Breheney
100% and also in the negotiation process because you know, there's not just theory there.
I've actually lived the experience.
I've been the real estate agent on the other end.
I know the psychology behind it.
I know what.
Kris Tatt
Pressure.
Travis Breheney
On both sides, I know what they're saying, I know what they're not saying, all these sort of things.
And and I'll say to the clients, look, I'm not, we're not perfect.
We don't get it right all the time.
But you know, we've done it a long time.
We've done it hundreds and hundreds of times and we would like to think that we that we agreed the play a lot better than you know, we get it right more way more times and we get it wrong.
Kris Tatt
Yes, Yep.
And I think to bringing that additional knowledge, like I know if I went out to buy an investment property tomorrow and I had, wasn't, wasn't aware of what I didn't know, I think I'd be going in and not knowing where the red flags are or where the issues are or is, is this a good price for, for where it is?
And if I'm just doing my own research, I think there'd be pieces of missing that puzzle.
I'm, I'm, I'm guessing from, from that where you're sort of coming and looking at that going well, I know what the market's doing at the moment.
I know where it's going.
I know the stock levels, I know the demand.
I know that's actually overpriced or actually we can get a better deal there or, or do that as well too.
So having that knowledge, I think is invaluable because it can dramatically change yields, I'm assuming as well.
If you're coming in at the wrong end, it can mean that it takes longer to see return on investment or it's a lower return on investment through that.
As well too, which can impact everything else you do as well I imagine.
Travis Breheney
Yeah, 100%.
You know, I always tell clients when we're looking at adding a property to our portfolio, we don't necessarily look at that property.
We want to know how does that property help us get the next property faster?
Yes.
And if it's not going to complement or add value or make it easier for the next one, well, maybe that's not the right property we should be adding for your portfolio.
We're either adding an anchor, right or we're putting wind in the sails for the next 1.
And that's really important to look at that the other thing and.
Kris Tatt
I don't think people always think about the next one or the term impacts.
It's sort of this is a good deal, or someone's made a good offer, or it seems like the right thing.
Let's jump in.
Travis Breheney
Yeah, happens all the time.
Kris Tatt
Can be a very expensive venture if it's not done correctly.
Travis Breheney
Very expensive, you know, you know, and you're just going to need to think about that lending, how does this affect my lending capacity and all these sort of things.
And so it's really important.
And you touched on before about the different locations and and so forth, you know, making mistakes like, you know, some markets, you know, some hot right now and some are cold right now.
Yes, you know, and there's always a hot market somewhere in Australia.
And that's what I love about being a buyer's agent.
You know, people catch up at barbecues and it has, you know, it has a property market and everyone's looking around and locally going.
It's pretty, it's not all that great, is it?
But they just don't know what's happening beyond like it's out of control.
You know, we're buying properties in locations there, locations like Interstate and have done for the last few years that are that are much more fierce than we experienced here in Bendigo during COVID.
OK, right.
And people just don't can't understand that, but it's happening right now.
Yep.
And.
Kris Tatt
And I guess unless you're got your finger on the pulse, you're just not aware of that.
Travis Breheney
Just not aware of it.
Kris Tatt
And the media probably does no help because all they say is, is there's a rental crisis or there's a housing crisis.
But where is that housing crisis currently happening?
Because it's not, it's not why?
It's just a just go and buy whatever because everything, you know, everything's is, is, is needed at the moment.
Or there's, you know, there's low stock everywhere.
It's actually going where.
Where are the areas that make sense.
Travis Breheney
That's right.
And where and where it makes sense today, it may not make sense in three years time.
Yep.
It it always changes.
Yeah.
Kris Tatt
Love to hear we're talking about markets at the moment.
What are some of the trends you're seeing?
And maybe maybe it doesn't necessarily have to be state by state, but we're just getting a lot of a deluge of information from from the media at the moment on property or on cost of living.
So what, what are some of your insights at the moment around is, is there a perfect time to buy or is it actually there's a perfect time to buy in different areas?
I'm, I'm probably answering my question here, but I'd love to hear a bit from you on what you're seeing out there at the moment around some of that, around that that that conversation around property and in the conversation you're having with clients versus what we're hearing from the media.
Travis Breheney
Yeah, sure.
Look, you got to look back in history and Australian property has performed extremely well over history, right?
Doesn't necessarily mean it will continue to do that.
Of course, there's the disclaimer for everyone.
However, you know, we are going through an unprecedented time with immigration and things like that.
So, you know, when you look at simple economics and so forth, and the supply demand issue and the low vacancies and all this sort of stuff, which, which is unprecedented, right?
We are going through a cycle which I think is new and it, and it, and it, it may not be repeated.
So I think right now, generally speaking, property is a fantastic option for anyone who can afford that.
You know, what is, what does it mean that I can afford it?
I always say to people, look, if if you're going to do something that's that you're going to stress out and it's going to keep you up at night while you do it, don't do it.
It's not worth it, right?
So it's a matter of trying to work out what, what you can afford and what you can't afford.
But there are some fantastic options.
And there is, again, people only look around what they can see and they, and they see, you know, maybe local prices, you know, that they might be out of that market.
But, but there are plenty of other markets around that are very affordable and deliver great growth options, great returns and so forth.
That actually, you know, that we, you know, we, we help clients get into all the time that that just didn't exist.
Kris Tatt
You touched on the supply and the demand.
Are you seeing many new builds?
I mean, I'm, I'm hearing that there's we're well behind targets on where we want to be for new homes and things like that.
Are you seeing anything contrary to that or is it is it literally we're just not building enough houses at the moment?
Travis Breheney
Yeah, good question.
So in Victoria, it has been quite slow in the building sector for a number of years.
Yep, we saw that, I saw that on the wall 3 or 4 years ago Interstate.
So there's been lots of activity over in Perth, for example, SE Queensland, Yep, you know, Adelaide, Yep, you know, there's been huge construction numbers out in, in those places over the last few years.
So it really depends on where we're looking at as to what the answer to that question is.
Kris Tatt
Again, comes back to understanding those other regions and those other markets, doesn't it?
Travis Breheney
Yeah, it certainly does.
Yeah, there's always something happening.
It's just a matter of where it's happening.
Kris Tatt
Yes, Yep, excellent.
And that's, and that's a great take home message is that it's knowing where to look and, and, and not, not necessarily here is indicative of all of Australia.
That's, that's great.
You touched on the finance pace and we talked a little bit about anchor, whether it's an anchor or a sale.
What are you seeing in terms of the banks and their capacity for lending at the moment?
Because that's sort of we came out of COVID and interest rates were going up for four years and then all of a sudden interest rates went up more in, in those four years than they've ever gone before.
It's, it's probably impacting people's ability to borrow and things like that.
So are you, are you saying that there's still appetite out there that you're still able to get deals across the line that you need to and things like that when you're, when you're dealing with the banks and work walking through this journey with the clients?
Travis Breheney
Yeah, 100%, you know, 100%.
There's different lending policies for different types of assets and things like that.
But yeah, generally, generally we haven't had a problem with with banks or anything like that at this moment in time.
We do and have worked in the NDIS space as well, which is a different segment in the market altogether.
We have seen some big reforms late last year in the financing of those properties which has severely affected some investors.
So you know, it's a very interesting story.
But apart from that, yeah, it's all, it's all all systems go been.
Kris Tatt
Quite good.
OK, excellent.
That's, that's really good to hear.
If we talk about, we've talked a bit about property and those kind of things.
I'd love if, if you've got a couple of examples of, of some that you've been able to help clients with going on that journey or going getting towards that financial freedom, because I think the stories is what people go.
I can resonate with that.
I understand that.
So I'd love to know a couple of stories that you've been able to help clients and, and take them on that journey.
Travis Breheney
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So first one comes to mind is actually a local couple, local business business owners who, you know, they, they live in their own home and they desperately wanted to get into the investment property market.
And because they understand the benefits of investing in property, which one of the main benefits is leverage.
You know, leverage your deposit, yes, to maximise your returns.
However they, they couldn't quite necessarily do that because of, you know, personal circumstances, finances and and so forth.
However, after a strategy session, we, we undertook complimentary which, you know, identified some possibilities in the superannuation fund, which we're currently, you know, sitting in managed funds, you know, and, and yeah, just just walk through some possibilities that, you know, by setting up a self managed super fund, we're able to help them get into a, a very, very high cash flow property, which service service itself.
So it didn't actually put any cash flow pressure on them whatsoever.
And to be able to get into that property market through their super.
So that was really pleasing and they're very grateful for that.
Kris Tatt
And I think that's probably one thing people don't always realise is you can borrow in super, you've got that there as a as another lever to pool.
It's another capital resource that you can deploy into property as well.
And I think I'm understanding that whole picture of, well, where is everything and how can I use these different levers in, in what we're doing.
So I think, yeah, that that's a great outcome.
Travis Breheney
So yeah, yeah, it was really, really pleasing.
Another 1A divorcee was referred to us, so I was probably 1/2 years ago now.
So he had 13 years to go until he was retired and he had a large sum of money, lives in Melbourne and again he saw property as a way forward for him.
So you know, same thing.
We helped him set up a self managed super fund, but we also helped him get into a high cash flow property over in Adelaide, which is already already grown over 100 grand in equity since since we did that last year and delivering, delivering very high returns for him.
So so again, it's just a matter of just trying to find those find that, find those markets that are growing that can add some cash flow into the into the picture just to help them help the clients keep adding to their portfolio over the years.
And then at the end, you know, it might be 5 or 10 years down the track, you know, it might be time to sell and consolidate and, and, and look at look at what's next.
Kris Tatt
Yes.
And I think that that's one of the things I know over the years I've seen with, with clients in different areas is, is that there is, there is a time to buy and there is a time to sell.
And sometimes people aren't always understanding that you don't hold everything forever.
And, and sometimes people can get a little bit connected to, oh, well, it's done really well while I sell it where we, if we go back to those cycles, while it's not always you don't, you're not always in that growth cycle.
You're not always in that period of and circumstances for people as well too changes.
So it's, it's not necessarily saying that was that made sense then, but it doesn't make sense now.
So how do you go having those conversations when maybe it's time to sell or it's time to actually consolidate stock or say if, if we're going to be able to do this next thing, we need to be able to free up that opportunity?
Travis Breheney
Yeah.
So each, so as a complimentary service with our with our clients, we offer a annual review for their for their portfolio.
So you know that the clients might live anywhere in Australia.
So we do this a lot of, a lot of our business is done online through video and so forth.
So yeah, we sit down with the client complimentary look at look at the how things are performing their portfolio.
Like you mentioned, things might change in clients lives.
So you know, they might be expecting a new child or someone might have lost a job or, or even their their goals might have changed as well.
Yes, you know, so it's just an opportunity to to revisit, have a look at what's going on is there?
Kris Tatt
Opportunities.
Is it what we did working?
Travis Breheney
Is it working?
Is it not?
Is it, this, is it that do we need to sell this and what's happening in this market that we're holding this property in all these bits and pieces.
So it's a really good opportunity to catch up, value add and and see what's what's next.
Kris Tatt
That's that's great.
And I think that's that's that's one of the crucial things is it's not a set and forget, is it not?
Some people go, although it's a long term investment, doesn't mean it's a long term.
Like you don't have to look at it for 10 years.
It's it.
Travis Breheney
You've got to keep looking at it.
Kris Tatt
Exactly.
And you've got to keep understanding what's next and how it works and what's happening in that market now.
I think is is a big part of that.
Travis Breheney
Yeah, that's right.
And you don't know what you don't know.
So it's just we just catch up, have a conversation, not go for an hour, go through the numbers and Yep, bring some ideas.
And at the end of that, it's up to the client what they what they want to do or what they don't want to do.
Yeah, great.
Yeah.
I always explain property to clients.
People laugh sometimes.
But but you'd mentioned about, you know, there are times to sell and I always, I always say property is like an orange, right?
So you, the idea is you want to, you want to buy an orange that's full of juice, right?
And then, and then you get the best out of it and you squeeze it down into nothing.
And then, and then basically when there's no juice left, you've got this, you've got a choice to make.
Do I throw that orange away or do I sit there and wait for it to regenerate?
Yes, for however long until I get the goodness out of that again.
So, so basically the whole idea is really trying to find that property with the most juice in it.
Yep, right.
Ride the wave, get the best as you can out of it.
Try to identify when it's not necessarily going to give you the returns that you need.
And then we need to make a decision.
Are we going to sit and wait for years until it's going to start producing again?
Or do we get rid of it and replace it with a brand new fresh orange?
Kris Tatt
And I think that's if you talk about those cycles and those waves, what it's either waiting for that next wave, isn't it?
Or it's actually saying, well, you know what over here is actually a great surf beach.
Let's jump on that wave instead, rather than waiting for this to to come back to to what it needs to be.
Yes, that's right, commercial.
Do you guys do commercial as well, don't you?
Travis Breheney
Do do commercial.
So I don't personally do that.
Yeah, I have.
I have a partner that that specialises in that.
Kris Tatt
Excellent.
But I'd love for the listeners just to understand some of the differences between residential and commercial because I've talked to some people and they understand residential because they they live in a house.
So that's an easy concept.
Commercials a whole different base, though, isn't.
Travis Breheney
It yeah, it certainly is for, you know, lending, you know how the how the asset gets valued, all those sort of bits and pieces, you know who's paying the outgoings.
It's it is totally different.
It is a it.
Kris Tatt
Is much more tenants dependent as well too isn't it where residential?
If it's a 3 bedroom you're going to find someone who needs a three bedroom house.
Where to find a tenant that fits the That commercial property can be a little bit harder, can't it?
Travis Breheney
That's right.
And we always say, look, generally speaking, generally speaking, we always say that commercial investing is quite a specialised, specialised beast.
And it's not for everyone.
And it, and it is more for that seasoned investor with a lot of assets behind them and a lot of cash flow behind them.
And we, we all saw this, you know, particularly in COVID times and things like that, where you know, it's all good and well, when the commercial property has a tenant in place as a, as a landlord, things are great.
Outgoings, getting paid, rents, getting paid, everything's fantastic.
But if that tenant leaves, you might be on a you, you might have a vacant property for a year, six months, a year or something like that.
And you need the ability to be able to hold that asset for the next tenant.
Kris Tatt
The the turnover is a is not as quick as it like and there's usually fit outs and things like that that need to happen as well too.
That's right, residential, everyone understands someone moves their stuff out, someone moves their stuff in a way they go.
That's right into if we're talking about tenants, how crucial are tenants to property investing?
Travis Breheney
Tenants are very crucial, very, very crucial.
So you want to make sure you know, part of the strategy and things like that in the research.
You want to make sure that you know, you understand the property and the area and those sort of things that you're looking to invest in.
You know, insurance is a really important thing as well.
So that as we go through the process with our clients, we make sure that, you know, they're getting, they're getting introduced to all the, all the experts in all the different fields to be able to get adequate covers and things like that, that people don't think of.
So, you know, landlords cover is very important.
People don't necessarily think about that or or they know.
Kris Tatt
What, what does landlords cover do just for those who might be thinking for their first property or, or they've got a property and they're going, Gee, God, I hadn't even thought about that.
Travis Breheney
Yeah, yeah.
So landlords insurance is a special type of insurance that you take out when you own a investment property.
And it doesn't only just cover you for, you know, if the building burns down or, or something like that, or, but you can also take additional covers for tenant damage, loss of rent, you know, rent default, you know, tenant just gets up and leaves all those sort of bits and bits and pieces with VCAT or third party authorities and things like that.
When there's a disagreement, you know, you as a landlord might be, might be not getting that income for a period of time, but the bank's still asking you to pay that monthly payment.
So.
Kris Tatt
And if we go back to that seasoned investor, they might be able to ride some of those storms a little bit up.
But if it's your first one or you know you've got got into it and now you've, you've got a family or something else has happened, you really need to make sure you've got that coverage at the end of the day, don't you?
Travis Breheney
Yeah, 100%.
And also not having to worry about it, you know, it's really, really important.
So just making sure that, you know, you've got that adequate cover in place just in case that 1% does happen to you.
Yes.
Kris Tatt
Yep, and you can think it's not gonna happen, but there's always plenty of stories out there of that.
Travis Breheney
Yes, that's right.
Kris Tatt
Which, yeah, talking about the tenant quality and things like that, do you find that that's something people don't always think about?
Is that risk of who am I actually getting to rent this property as part of that process?
And I know there's usually a bit of choice when you use a real estate agent and you're lending it out.
But is that something that people don't always consider as part of that process of who would actually be living in the house, who actually getting to pay the rent on on on this in this investment property?
Travis Breheney
Yeah, I'd probably say most tenant, most, most clients don't think about it.
Some do, but I would say most, most don't.
And that's another thing about making sure too that we're, you know, understanding the area very well, but also understanding, you know, vacancy rates and things like that because the a healthy vacancy rate typically between landlord and tenant is about 3 percent, 3 1/2%.
Yep, at the moment most places are well under that.
But but when they're operating in that, you know, 1% mark, things like that, you'll find that being a landlord, you're in, you've got a much more stronger choice as to who you can let in the property.
You're not, you know, because you're holding the cards.
Yes, Whereas if you're going into a location that might have a six or 7% vacancy rate tip, don't do that.
But if you do find yourself in, in a location like that, well, the, the tenant, you're a bit more desperate and you and you and you and you sort of tend to say yes to whatever comes through.
And that's a dangerous place to be a problem, correct?
Yeah, which?
Kris Tatt
Again, understanding the area, understanding the risk profile, attendance and things like that is, is crucial.
Now that's, that's really good.
I want to touch on Victoria, because Victoria's brought in some much more stringent rental standards over the last 12 to 18 months, which is sort of probably impacted markets, impacted yields and things like that.
Are we seeing that across Australia or is are you finding that different states, different rules mean there's different opportunities and things like that as well too?
Travis Breheney
Yeah, it's definitely different in different states.
Yeah, 100% so.
So in my opinion, Victoria is the most legislated state in regards to making sure, you know, standards are at a certain level and things like that, which at the end of the day, at the end of the day, the consumer pays at the at at the end.
So correct.
So really it's the tenant paying at the end of the day, you know, because the landlord themselves, they need a certain amount of return.
Yes, right.
To repay the loan and get the, the, the.
So at the end of the day, it's the, it's the tenant that's paying.
Kris Tatt
And it's not about saying we're looking for dodgy properties, but it's just about saying there is red tape attached to every new rule, every new bit of legislation.
There is more cheques and balances that you need to pay for which then get passed on to the consumer at the end of the day where sometimes a bit of common sense can go a long way it.
Travis Breheney
Can go a long way Exactly right.
And that's about to when we get to that point in the journey with the client about presenting properties.
Yep, this is right at the end of the at the at the at the process to making sure that before they make a decision on which property that we're going to move forward on or hope to move forward on is that, you know, one might attract certain issues that we need to be aware of, which doesn't necessarily mean it's bad.
It's just it's just good to know what's ahead of you where another one might not.
So that might come into play about OK, which, which one's a better one for us?
Kris Tatt
Yep, and which one's going to give us less headaches at the end of the?
Travis Breheney
Day.
That's right.
Keep us up.
Kris Tatt
Less at night, correct and all those kind of things.
No, that's really good.
If we if we talk, you talked about that seasoned investor and maybe someone who's got a portfolio already.
What are some of the things that you're helping those clients who have established or on their way to replacing their income?
What is there different things that you're applying to those circumstances as opposed to that person who's getting that first property and sort of taking that first step into the journey?
Does it look different as that momentum builds and you've got that stock of you've got that portfolio of properties?
Travis Breheney
It does look different, probably with the ones that are more seasoned.
One thing that does come into play is land tax, you know, so I was just speaking to a, a, a new client yesterday actually.
And now and now we're having this exact conversation with them, right.
So they were this they were buying their first investment property.
So they're open to all the states of Australia, which is fantastic.
And I was just explaining to them that that, you know, that that just helps us be able to not be restricted into finding great opportunities.
However, if you were coming to me with five or six different properties and that was, and say WA was the only state you hadn't invested in, you know, we might be having another conversation around, OK, well, maybe we might not look in all these other states might, we might just look at WA for example, just because of, you know, we want to number one, we want to diversify and make sure that all their investments are diversified for various reasons, but also to on a, on a land tax point of view, because that's all state legislated, you know, so we want to make sure.
Kris Tatt
Very very much state specific.
Travis Breheney
State specific.
That's right.
So you know, if you have all your properties in Victoria, for example, where you're going to, you might have 10 properties in Victoria, you might be paying, you might be paying $30,000 a year in land tax, for example, just as a figure.
But if you had to spread out, you might be paying zero.
So it just depends.
Kris Tatt
Which obviously then impacts yields and things like that as well too, which is where that strategy comes into play, where it's thinking that longer term, how do we get into where we we need to go in terms of building a portfolio.
We talked a little bit about anchors and winds in the sail and what are some of the things that impact people being able to acquire?
Because I've heard sometimes it can be easy to start, but it's not easy to continue to build.
So what are some of those things that people put in place that hampers their ability to be able to build portfolios rather than just get that single investment property?
Travis Breheney
Yeah, I've seen like I've been in in property for long, long, long time now.
And I've seen it time and time again.
And this is what I love helping people understand at that early stage.
So we spend a lot of time in building the foundation with a client, right?
Could be months before we're actually ready to start buying a property.
It's that building the foundation.
If we don't build it right, people will probably fall into that trap and I'll call it a bottleneck when it comes to lending.
You might buy one or maybe 2, and then the banks will just say no to you because you're you're done.
So it's about just understanding what your lending capacity is.
Also in the strategy, we also help the client understand, OK, what's your life going to look like in the next 5 years?
Are you going to be on one income in two years time or, or, or, or you're currently on one income and you're going to be on one income in two years time.
So that'll expand or.
So it's all trying to understand where you are now, where you're going to be in a year or two and where you're going to be in five years to help sort of map out what property might be good now that will help us buy another one in two years time.
And it's so it's very, it's very personal and depends on the client's circumstances.
Kris Tatt
Yeah, but if people aren't not conscious of that or making sure they are going through the process, they could be hampering future ability to purchase, future ability to build and and potentially go from trying to replace their income to to not at.
Travis Breheney
All not at all.
And and and essentially what they do is they actually create a a a noose around their neck tying them to their job even longer.
Yeah, right.
Because they just have to get pay increases and things like that to keep up with the expenses of this property that they probably shouldn't have bought in the first place.
Kris Tatt
Yep, which probably leads me onto what are some of the mistakes you've seen property investors make?
And it's not, it's not here to say people do the wrong thing, but it's definitely about saying, well, how do we, how do, how can people either avoid or if they've got those red flags come and come and see you or someone to actually get actually, I've I've done the wrong thing.
I need to deal, I need to sort this out.
So, So what are some of those those issues that you've seen come up for for people?
Travis Breheney
Yeah, yeah, we have touched on a few of them, you know, not diversifying, that's that's one rushing into buying a property is probably the biggest one without really but.
Kris Tatt
One thing without on the opportunity.
Travis Breheney
There's always another one around the corner and it's probably better, you know?
So just really not rushing into it thinking I have to keep up with the Joneses, right?
I like to really slow things down with a client and make sure that they fully understand what they're doing and why they're doing it.
Not what they're doing, but why are they doing it?
Kris Tatt
Because 10 to 20 years is a long time.
It is.
Travis Breheney
Yeah, exactly right.
You know, so just not rushing into things, people tend to rush into things a lot.
Also making sure that the they're getting the right lending facilities as well, not only rates and things like that, but how the lending is structured right, So which.
Kris Tatt
I think is a crucial bit to that longer term growth, isn't it?
Because sometimes people just focus on that rate.
If I can get the best rate, that's that's what I need where that can actually, yeah, impact that longer term kind.
Travis Breheney
Of yeah, that's right.
And you know, just making sure it's structured right, just to get the, you know, most tax advantages out of the out of the structure and things like that.
You know, that's why it's really important to have a group of professionals around who specialised in the different factors to be able to make sure that you're getting holistic advice before just rushing in and buying something.
Kris Tatt
And hoping that it works.
Travis Breheney
Hoping that it works.
Most often it doesn't.
Yes, when you when you do that.
So that's probably what I see most.
Kris Tatt
Yep, we talked, you've talked about where the next five years.
So if we go five years from now, we're in 20-30.
Where do you see markets?
What do you see Australia's property market?
Are we, are we back to normal stock levels where they need to be?
You know, all the houses built that need to be built.
I, I, I'm struggling to see how we can turn this around quickly.
It is my, my concern, but I'd love to hear your insights.
You've got a lot more feet on the ground with some of this.
Travis Breheney
So, yeah, look, I, I have to agree with you, Chris.
I can't see how the supply is going to meet up with the demand.
You know, it will come a time where, where, where that does align again, Yes, where, where that, when that is, that's anyone's guess.
But if that happens in the next 5 years, I'll be extremely surprised, Yep, extremely surprised.
As far as as far as where and the trends and things like that, you know, just a little bit of a inside tip for some listeners.
We are starting to see a little bit of a trend to come back to Victoria over the last probably three to six months.
So that's interesting.
The numbers are starting to make a little bit more sense for investors in.
Kris Tatt
Victoria, is that some increased demand or what's sort of driving a bit of that shift, do you think?
Travis Breheney
Yeah.
Well, we've seen enormous growth in a lot of the other states, enormous growth growth and we've seen the rental yields come down.
So as an investor, typically you're looking for growth opportunities and you're looking for returns with cash coming in the yields, right.
And over the last couple of years, two or three years, other states typically for various reasons have they've just exploded.
So as an investor now it's sort of starting to come back and, and Victoria's starting to make a little bit more sense.
We've started to see the numbers and the interest and the demands start to pick up down here.
And even when I ever when I actually talk to a lot of the real estate agents, you know, on the ground in various parts of Victoria and things like that, all of them in the places that we're buying confirming that you know, that their phone is their phone is starting to run off the hook with with buyer's agents and things like that looking to buy properties in those locations for clients.
Kris Tatt
So there is, there is a bit of again, we talk about those waves, they're shifting again.
That's right.
Travis Breheney
Yep.
Kris Tatt
That's right.
Where might what what made sense two years ago might not make sense now.
And that that can sometimes be the hard thing about the BBQ conversation is, well, I've got I've got this property, it's doing gangbusters where that might be a signal, whether it's coming near the end of the peak or it's it's you sort of you're in the midst of it where where's that next cycle going to kick up from as well, too?
That's right.
That's, that's actually quite interesting.
Yeah, that's good.
In terms of misconceptions that people might have around property, like we're talking about where we're going over the next 10 years and people go, well, probably everyone's priced out of the property market.
But like looking at your your website, there's still, there's still properties that seem to be reasonably priced in, in some of your case studies.
So 100% what you know, what are some of those misconceptions people have?
Do do you need to be looking at properties where 6, seven, $800,000?
Are there other options out there as well too for people?
Travis Breheney
Yeah, there's some great options out there.
There are some seriously magnificent options out there that people just don't, they just don't know about, you know, So, you know, we're still buying, you know, we're everyone's different.
We're still buying some properties for clients that are delivering great growth and great rental returns for less than $400,000.
And we're not talking apartments or units.
We don't necessarily do those.
Kris Tatt
Why don't you do them?
Travis Breheney
Historically, the historically the, the, the growth hasn't been quite there with, with when you compare it to houses, because at the end of the day, it's the land that increases in value and the house decreases in value.
Yep, you know, the land appreciates, the, the house depreciates.
So we like to buy land where, where we can.
That's that's how we like to steer, steer our clients.
Kris Tatt
Yep, because I think that can be a misconception sometimes, isn't it?
A house is a house where an apartment is not necessarily the same.
You've got strata costs as well.
That's right.
People don't always think about this.
I don't think about corporate and things like that.
That can add up quite quickly.
That's right.
Really impact those returns as well too.
Travis Breheney
Yeah.
So there's a big difference between gross yield and net yield, you know, in that, in that apartment space and and unit space, the gross yield looks attractive.
But when you take away all those costs and stratas and all those sort of things, it's, it's still might be slightly better than than a house typically, but not much.
And but the growth is certainly we've seen, it's certainly not not there.
Kris Tatt
And I think it's getting that distinction for people as well, too.
What's the net yield?
That's right.
What do I actually get to pay off my loan or do I get to actually come into the bank account that helps support what I'm doing?
Because that, that's a big difference, isn't it, sometimes.
Travis Breheney
100% you've got to get the full picture, the full holding costs and you know, account for everything and see what's, see what's there at the end because that at the end of the day, that's the most important.
Kris Tatt
And the glossy ads won't always touch on that, will they won't.
Travis Breheney
Typically not.
Kris Tatt
No, exactly right.
No, that's, that's, that's really good in terms of for, for you and, and, and what you're doing with clients.
What, what are some of the things that, that you're, you're saying is, are some of the trends that have been changing in terms of conversations with, with property?
Because I know sometimes people are all in on property or people maybe, maybe, maybe I'll, I'll back off a bit.
Or we've had really good growth.
We just need to, to, to set and forget is, is there, is there still a real appetite for, for continued purchase and things like that at the moment?
Or coming off that COVID wave that we saw where, you know, prices sort of across the country just seem to go up 20%.
Are people sort of going all well?
I've I've done, I've seen the growth, now I'll just, I'll just enjoy what I've got.
Or is there still appetite?
Is there still an understanding that there are still places that are booming in different areas?
Travis Breheney
I would say the appetite is stronger than I've ever seen it.
Wow.
Yeah, without a doubt.
Like there is a hunger, a real hunger out there for people to buy properties.
Kris Tatt
Is there a bit of FOMO with that too?
Is there a fear of missing?
Travis Breheney
Out, I believe there, I believe there probably probably is, yeah, Yep, 100%.
But that's certainly there.
But there's, there's, there's, there's a genuine understanding and a logical understanding of, of why it's super important to, to invest in property, probably more so now than than ever with those, you know, reasons we touched on.
Yeah, right at the start.
Kris Tatt
Supply and demand, That's right.
Travis Breheney
Yeah.
Kris Tatt
Is really driving some of it.
And I'm not saying that that we're doing anything to change the supply, the demand at the moment.
There's still, you know, there's still a lot of people looking for property, isn't there?
Travis Breheney
Yeah, that's right there.
It's not.
Kris Tatt
Not changing.
Travis Breheney
Yeah.
So within Victoria, for example, what's what's slowed a lot of that construction, the construction industry down, you know, which I used to work in, of course is the cost of the cost to build these days, you know, and there is a genuine gap at the moment between cost of building and buying an established home.
Yes.
You know, So what we're starting to see is that until that gap between the established market and the brand new build diminishes to become a little bit more realistic, it just makes a lot more sense most of the time to go and buy an established property.
And we'll only start to see more people build when economically it makes sense to do so.
Kris Tatt
Yes, because for there was probably a period they were actually made more sense just to build than it was to buy.
Travis Breheney
That's right, yeah.
Kris Tatt
That's right.
And we'll sort of flip, flip the switch at the moment and and it will it will come back again at some point.
That's right.
So do you guys look at new builds as well or?
Travis Breheney
Is it just?
Yeah.
Kris Tatt
So it's not just just established times and it's actually saying, well, you know, land and land and house package or or or subdivision and things like that as well too.
Travis Breheney
Yeah, pretty much everything.
So and that's one of the benefits or one of the the things that we probably probably like, like to say that we offer that I haven't quite seen anywhere else.
Typically you might have, you might have the call and buyers agents, you might have the agent that might just specialise in new builds or only specialise in established homes in Victoria or whatever it is, right or commercial.
You know, we, we, we cater for, for any type anywhere because we like to, we like to be out.
This is a relationship business for us, if that makes sense.
So it's not necessarily about a transaction.
We like to be able to walk with a client over the years to help them show you something special.
And we want them to know that whatever their property needs are, we're here to help.
Kris Tatt
Yep.
And that I mean that means you're not locked into just a specific solution each time.
That's right.
For clients, it's really saying what in the strategy of where you're going, what makes the most sense and and how do we build around that strategy.
Travis Breheney
That's right.
Yep.
Kris Tatt
For, for someone who's interested in coming to see, coming to see you and get some more information, what, what do they need to do?
What are the first steps?
Is there anything they need to prepare beforehand?
Do they do a bit of research or do they just say, I'm interested in property, I need to come and see Travis and the team?
What, what's sort of the process for, for people that to come and see you and, and go through that?
Travis Breheney
Yeah, it's pretty, pretty simple, you know, we're, we're here to help.
It's not all that scary.
I know picking up the phone could be sometimes but but it's just simply just jumping on the website genesiswealth.com dot AU.
Kris Tatt
We'll include all that in the show notes as well, so people can go there and click the links.
Travis Breheney
Yeah, or picking up the phone and just having, having a chat.
We like to just have a bit of a chat just to work out, you know, basically what you've got in mind, what you what you think you want.
What we find is a lot of people want something, but they're just not necessarily sure number one, whether they have the capacity to do it or or you know, whether they can do it as well.
So we're just here to basically just have a quick informal discussion with them just about, you know, what may or may not be possible, whether we're a right fit or not.
And if we are, you know, if, if we do see some sort of capacity there, then it's just a matter of, you know, booking in a complementary strategy session.
So we do that complementary, you know, to be able to just take a deep dive and, and, and work out what we what, you know, different options and what may or may not be possible.
Kris Tatt
And I think that's one of the, the valuable things is having a conversation with the experts and, and sometimes talking to the friends and, and things like that.
You can get all little bits of information, but actually sitting down with someone who's got the finger on the pulse, who understands.
I think that's that's where the value is.
So that that's great.
Have you got any last take home messages?
Little tips for for anyone listening, going or this is all sending new or I'm actually getting really excited.
What, what, what, what do I, what do I want to do?
Is there any, any little things for, for people that you've got as as a bit of a last, last thing before we we, we finish up?
Travis Breheney
Yeah, look, just, I think, I think if there's, if there's doubts or there's fear or anything like that, just pick up the phone, ask the questions.
A lot of us tend to tend to live in a state of misbelief.
Yep.
Or not being confident about things.
So the tip, the tip is just to ask.
You never know unless you ask.
The other thing too is, you know, just keep your eye on the interest rates and things like that.
If you do go and buy property, probably the biggest tip I'd have for people is don't borrow or don't max yourself out to what the bank says you can have.
Yes, right.
Really be conservative.
You don't know what you know.
There are talks about what the rates are coming down, but you just don't know.
You don't know at the end of the day and.
Kris Tatt
Do the do the numbers.
Travis Breheney
Do the numbers.
That's right.
You know, so just be conservative and whatever you choose to do, just make sure that you know, there's a, there's a big, there's a big buffer in place there just in case things don't quite go as you anticipated.
Kris Tatt
Excellent.
All right, very good.
Thank you, Travis so much.
I've really appreciate the conversation today.
I love digging into property bit more and understanding it and hopefully for all our listeners, we can understand a bit more about buyer's agent and, and how they can help you on that journey for for property equity position and and growth and hopefully enrich your life.
So thank you everyone and thank you Travis, really appreciate the time.
Thanks.
Travis Breheney
For having me, Chris.
Kris Tatt
No worries.
Thank you.
