Episode 12 | Growing, Scaling, or Exiting Your Business? What You Need to Know – with Lachlan Edwards from OFRM Lawyers
In this episode of the Enriched Wealth Podcast, Kris Tatt chats with Lachlan Edwards, Director and Commercial Lawyer at OFRM Lawyers, about the critical legal foundations every business owner needs — from startup through to succession.
Lachlan shares his unique journey from journalism to law, and why helping businesses succeed (and avoid preventable headaches) is at the heart of what he does.
They dive into:
Setting up your business structure the right way
Why business owner agreements are essential, even among friends
Managing risk as your business scales
How to approach succession planning and selling your business
Common legal mistakes businesses make — and how to avoid them
If you're starting, growing, or thinking about your exit strategy, Lachlan’s insights are packed with practical advice to help you protect and future-proof your business.
Transcript
Kris Tatt
Welcome to the Rich Wealth Podcast.
Today we have Lachy Edwards from OFRM Lawyers, Director and commercial lawyer joining us today and I'm very excited to have Lachy in the studio.
Lachy thanks for coming in and joining.
Lachlan Edwards
US.
Thank you, Kris.
Kris Tatt
Now, I'd love to get you to talk a little bit about who you are, your current job role, and then I'd love to roll back the clock and go, how did you get to where you are?
What's the journey?
And we've talked a little bit beforehand and I love the journey and it's a bit of a different way in.
And I think most people just think you just, you just go this way and do that.
But you've, you've done a few different things.
So really, really excited to dig into that.
But tell us a bit a little bit about commercial lawyer.
What does that mean?
A little bit later on, we're going to dig into what that looks like day to day, how you help clients, but just love a bit of a starting point around that for you.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, thanks, Chris.
So who am I?
What's a commercial lawyer?
What does that mean?
So how long have we got?
Well, why don't I start with my day?
So this morning I come in and I could do anything from writing up the terms and conditions for a business.
Yep.
Then I get a phone call and someone's like, hey, we've got this employee and we've got a problem with them.
I need your help.
So, reprioritising to help them in the moment.
Righty, let's, let's send me some information and then I'll come back to you at 2:00.
Yes.
Yep.
Then I might have my team meeting.
We delegate out our tasks and then I'm into some chunky work which might be drawing up your business owners agreement.
Then I get another interruption and it's an urgent call and it's like, hey, I want to break out with my business owners.
We don't have an agreement on how this works.
So, So what do I do?
So I'm into that maybe 1520 minutes, arrange a more detailed time to go through it.
Then I'm thinking, OK, what else have I got to do?
I've got to write this lease for this new commercial property.
I've got to write up a contract for a commercial property sale.
Yep.
I've got to touch base with my client who's selling their business, see where they're up to with the steps between signing their contract and getting to settlement.
Then I've got some governance work I've got to do and some other roles.
I've got Yep, which are through my commercial lawyer work, and they might be working with boards on policies and procedures, remuneration structures, committees, things like that.
Then I get another interruption, and I haven't even made it to lunch.
Right.
So you can see where it's going.
So the joy of my job is how dynamic it is and how I get to work with people in my community like you.
And I suppose like, like any other job, you do what you do well.
But ultimately, it's about helping people.
Yes.
Yeah.
And helping their businesses.
Kris Tatt
I love that because I think not for everyone, but I think there'd be some people out there that think lawyers go to court, lawyers sit and write nasty letters and, and these kind of things.
You could do that too.
Yeah, yeah.
But there's, there's a whole varied range of things and, and I think we'll dig into that.
But I'd love to hear a bit about your story.
How did you get to where you are now?
What's what's the journey look like?
Where did it all start?
When was that first time that you're like, I think I want to be a lawyer?
Lachlan Edwards
Right, good question.
Let's go right back to the start.
So go for it.
1985 born in Duneliquin Hospital.
Kris Tatt
Yes, Yep, they still have a hospital.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, there's a hospital.
My cousin works there.
Kris Tatt
Yeah, nice as a nurse, yeah.
Lachlan Edwards
So born the son of a TAFE teacher, my mom's TAFE teacher.
Yep, big inspiration.
Love you mom.
Big inspiration on on my career and the son of a plumber.
Self employed plumber who worked for the council and then ran his own show.
Kris Tatt
Yeah, excellent.
Lachlan Edwards
So that's where I started.
Kris Tatt
So didn't didn't want plumbing, wasn't a call for you.
Lachlan Edwards
My brother and my cousin, they, they went down.
Kris Tatt
That path but but.
Lachlan Edwards
But not me.
Yeah.
So Dinelliquin Public High School I went to.
Yep.
So 500 people made the newspaper when I got my It was called an enter score back in the day.
So you know the score you get at the end.
Kris Tatt
I had an enter score too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's it's something completely different now, yeah.
Lachlan Edwards
So yeah, and so went away and studied at La Trobe in Bandura.
But probably the moment when I thought, do I want to be a lawyer?
Kris Tatt
So did you, did you go and study law?
Lachlan Edwards
No.
Kris Tatt
So what did you go and study?
Lachlan Edwards
Was I?
I remember having this conversation with my mum who was a TAFE teacher, head teacher, and she brought in these books and she's like, here's some certificates.
You can do a TAFE around creative things like multimedia and marketing and so forth.
Now I'm going to Melbourne.
It didn't matter what I was doing, I was going to Melbourne.
Right.
Because, you know, the the Rebel and you just wants to go and experience something.
That's right, yeah.
Kris Tatt
Forge your own part.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah.
So I did a Bachelor of media Studies major journalism.
Yep.
So that was that was journalism back in the day when it was paper.
Kris Tatt
You know, it was print.
Everyone still brought a paper.
Yeah.
Which just doesn't happen these days.
Yeah.
So what, what was your, what, what was your, what led you to journalism?
Was there a real desire to want to write?
Was there a desire to want to tell the truth?
Was there a desire which I think there might be people thinking about what media looks like these days and it looks a little bit different to that.
But what what was sort of that calling for you towards that role?
Lachlan Edwards
It was probably the middle ground of of the truth and telling the story.
Yeah.
So whether it was news or whether it was longer interest investigative things, but yeah, that's probably why.
And I don't know, thinking back, maybe it was actually just there were skills that that suited that, writing skills.
Kris Tatt
Because I'm actually thinking being a lawyer in some ways is not dissimilar.
Like they're still advocating, they're still a desire, truth telling and all those kind of things as well too.
So it's probably not as much of A stretch as some people might think.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, it is.
And potentially, you know, the creative interests I had at the time getting into music and.
Kris Tatt
Still into music, aren't?
Lachlan Edwards
You still into music in a band?
Kris Tatt
Yeah, yeah.
What's the band?
Lachlan Edwards
Dog.
Is the name Nice?
Yeah.
Kris Tatt
On Spotify.
Lachlan Edwards
That's a different story.
Let's come back to that later.
But there's a song on there.
Kris Tatt
Yeah, OK.
Nice.
Yeah.
Good.
Yeah.
Might include that link in the show notes.
Kira, I think just for everyone.
Yeah, that'll be good.
Yeah.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah.
Kris Tatt
All right, Sorry, we'll come back to that.
So, yeah, so interest at the time led to that journalism bent a little bit more and.
Lachlan Edwards
Sort of, well, that's what I could get into right in Melbourne.
So I'm like, let's do it.
Moved into Glenn College at La Trobe Uni on campus and had a ball of a time finish my journalism degree.
And I remember this, this, this thing that the UNI put on at the end of it where in year 3 where they're like, Hey, come to these sessions and you can figure out how to get a job.
And I'm like, OK, a job.
I haven't had one of those except for like KFC and the, and the petrol station in Denny.
Right.
So, and they were basically like at the time in the early 2000's, the jobs you could get were go back to a country town and do a cadet ship like at the Addy or something.
Yep.
Or you could, I'm sell advertising for a network TVI was like, well, I'm probably not really up for that.
And I'm having a great time partying at uni, so maybe I'll just keep studying.
That's, that's the ticket.
Yeah.
To, to, to not being responsible.
Yeah.
So I applied for law, got into law.
So that was another four years of study and kind of hit the ground.
Kris Tatt
Running again seven years of study.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah.
Plus plus you do this thing at the end of your law degree where it's like an extra 6 months, OK?
Kris Tatt
To do the almost like on the job training.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, they used to call it article clerkship.
Kris Tatt
Yep, Yeah, Yeah.
Nice.
Yeah.
Traineeship.
So quite a different journey.
It wasn't you woke up and said I'm going to be a lawyer.
It was sort of you fell into the field.
What made you, what drew you to law as opposed to economics or any other areas?
Was it, was there, was there something that sort of called you that direction to sort of say?
Lachlan Edwards
Well, I'm a rule follower, yes, at heart, even though I say I'm a rebel, right?
So maybe it was that, or I mean, like I said off the top, like it's about wanting to help people.
But yeah, my skills kind of fell and my interest was in in law and a lot of people it's like upholding human rights and things like that were.
Kris Tatt
Which some of your first job was that as well too wasn't?
Lachlan Edwards
It.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kris Tatt
Yeah, so great.
So you go through, do your law degree, then jump straight into being a lawyer.
Did.
Lachlan Edwards
I do that.
I worked in a food and wine dealer and that was during my law degree.
Yep, discovered the fine, fine foods of life.
Right?
Because you know.
Kris Tatt
Probably not available in Denny.
Lachlan Edwards
Meat and three veg, yeah, that was a Maccas, yeah, Fish and chips, all the great stuff that you come back to, right?
Kris Tatt
Yep.
Lachlan Edwards
But this was like learning how to to this was prosciutto preserves, you know, cheeses, all the good stuff.
Import.
Kris Tatt
Yeah, Yep.
You know, beautiful.
Lachlan Edwards
I didn't like olives.
What was wrong with me?
So learn about the finer part of life there.
So I worked there.
But then I I thought, Oh well, I'm going to have to try and find a job as a lawyer.
And at the time there were, and they probably still are, there's just way too many law grads for jobs.
So a way to get in was to go and work at community legal centres.
OK.
Which are publicly funded.
So it's a bit like legal aid.
Yeah, except it's not means tested in the sense of it's about each community centre gets a certain amount of money to help the community.
Yep.
And they can then run that however they please.
To the extent the funders allow that, a lot of it's based on disadvantage and vulnerability criteria.
Yep.
As opposed to I just can't afford a lawyer, OK.
Kris Tatt
Yeah, very good.
And so then you, you essentially cut your teeth advocating for, yeah, the, those disadvantaged in, in society really at the end of the day.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, so I started on the front desk at Whittlesea Community Indie Legal Service Centre Service and then, well then I volunteered at Consumer Action Law Centre, which is where I then became a legal assistant.
So basically, you know, the new clients would come in and they'd give me the sheet with the names and I'd type it into the computer and print out the file and be like to the lawyer, here you go, here's the file.
And can I hear a bit about this and help you with it at all?
Trying to trying to cut your teeth a bit more so.
Kris Tatt
Yeah, so.
Lachlan Edwards
Did that and then you know, opportunity comes up and you you grab it as a, as a junior lawyer role.
Kris Tatt
So, yeah, excellent.
Yeah, Yep.
How have you, how have you felt?
Because a lot of things will have shifted over that time.
There's a lot of stuff going electronically.
What was it like back then?
I mean, we had people on recently talking about her, her role at Bendigo Bank was crossing out TFNS or cutting them out and things like that.
So you probably have seen a shift in technology over that time, have you?
Lachlan Edwards
Well, everything's electronic, right?
And you know, I've got two young kids, A5 and an 8 year old and my 5 year old said the other day, we're trying to, you know, say you can't go and watch your iPad or your screen.
And she was like, but dad sits at the computer all day.
So I don't know the.
Can you get the answer for that?
Kris Tatt
One I I don't because I I do as well and it's it's it's it's it's it's almost I find it frustrating as it's like.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, one of the things about a good lawyer is anticipating what the other side's going to say and countering that.
Right.
Yes, but I didn't do that with my five year old so.
Kris Tatt
Have you found that with kids, 'cause I, I find they come out with the the most, most interesting pills and you're like I, I actually don't know what to do with that.
Lachlan Edwards
A little bit, but you know, my wife is absolutely a better parent than me, so she's got it covered.
But but going back to your question, so how's it changed?
Like we've moved from paper to electronic.
There was back in the day, I was doing a lot of core work.
So there was lots of paper things you had to go to court with hand up to judges or to to clients or other parties.
Yep.
Now that's all on computer.
There's so much more what we call the efficiency, right?
Yes, but we didn't think about that back then.
We were just busy doing our job.
And I think that's where for a lot of professional services firms, we've gone.
We think about systems, processes and efficiencies now to get the most out of our people and, and, and you know their well being.
Kris Tatt
Yep.
And I think too efficiency as you mentioned is, is that well being piece as much as anything else.
Does somebody actually want to do this job?
You know, then how do we how do we not have it as part of what happens and actually give them more headspace to do the other things they need to do.
I remember very early days scanning documents when I was at Stratagem and that was, that was definitely not an exciting job, but usually something you'll leave for a Friday afternoon when when you don't need a whole lot of space anyway.
But yeah.
Lachlan Edwards
Part of the other thing is, well, you know, AI is infiltrating the legal industry a bit.
Yes.
And I think the big challenge we have with where the technology's up to now is, let's say Chris, for example, you decide I'm Jack of being an accountant.
That sucks.
I want to be a lawyer because they're way better, right?
So you come to me and you say, yeah, I I want to be, you know, your graduate lawyer.
Kris Tatt
Great.
Yep.
Lachlan Edwards
So instead of having you there, I could use AI to do all the things, all the research, all the tasks that that person would do.
So how do we bring people up?
And that's that's the challenge we have in probably in many industries, but certainly in law and.
Kris Tatt
I think we need to find an answer to, and I think too on that AI point, you know when AI spits out the correct answer and when it doesn't.
But that's because you've gone, you've done, you've done your time in the trenches.
You've reviewed countless documents, you've reviewed countless wordings.
You, you know what to look for someone new who comes in and relies on AI to give the response.
Well, for them, they don't know what they're not what, what should be there exactly.
And so all of a sudden, how do you teach that side without actually going to the tensions, without actually doing what needs to be done to make it second nature?
Lachlan Edwards
Exactly.
And I think ethically for us and in terms of our own values, it's, well, don't we just want to employ local people and give them a job instead of doing AI?
So there's the tension there, right?
Yep.
Is you want to help people in your community and give them a job and build them up and build up Bendigo, right?
Kris Tatt
And I think too, we still need people in the industry.
AI is never going to replace everything and people still want to deal with people, but it is it is gonna be an interesting challenge going forward.
I was listening to, I was watching a video the other week on.
They were testing memory to see what what was memory and what was known.
And so they gave a chess board and asked someone who'd never played chess.
They had five seconds looked at it and then recreate it.
Then they did the same with the grand chess master and the grand chess chess master could nearly put, I think it was like 70% of the board in the places it needed to be.
And then they gave a second scenario where all the places weren't where they normally would be.
If you're playing a game.
And the grand chess masters were nearly exactly the same as someone who hadn't looked at it.
And it was because they had wrote learned all of where positions would be in a game that they they could remember.
This looks similar to these ones.
I can recreate that and get most of it right.
And I think that's the same that we're going to have with people with technology using the the rote learn of reading 1000 leases is gives you that.
Lachlan Edwards
Experience.
Kris Tatt
That experience that you just can't replicate by pushing technology to give you the response.
You can use it to help, but it shouldn't be there as the Yeah so anyway.
Lachlan Edwards
The other part of it is just the the comfort of a human being who understands you, has life experience and can say, well, you know, I've done this for 1520, thirty years.
This is what I think you should do.
Kris Tatt
And, and I think that that life experience also helps seat around the corners because if you feed, if you feed the AI your problem, well, it doesn't take into account all the other issues that might be sitting around that problem.
But you isn't it, as a person who understands your client knows that there is more than that problem at hand.
Lachlan Edwards
Well, and that's one of the big things that I do as a, as a lawyer, it's, you know, I see myself as more the practical problem solver.
Yes.
And someone will come to me and say this is what I want.
And the first thing you've really got to do is understand what the objective is.
Is it what they're saying?
Yes or is it actually this or that, Right.
And often it comes back to I want to not have to deal with this and you deal with it and my business gets on with success and growth, right.
So that's that's what I look at.
I'm like thinking back to that because that's mostly what people's objectives are.
Kris Tatt
Yes, yeah.
And I want to focus on the things that they're good at and then give you the problems that you're good at.
Yeah.
Solve for them.
No, that's really good.
So if if we go back to the to the journey, because we're we're not at the end yet or not at the end at all.
But I'm so sorry.
Lachlan Edwards
We could be more than an hour.
Kris Tatt
Yeah, that's it.
For those listening, we apologise.
Just come for the ride.
So then, so then from there you legal aid.
We'll see.
Is where we last left off.
Where to from there?
Lachlan Edwards
So then I went to Consumer Action Law Centre.
Yep, yeah, legal assistant doing kind of support work and, you know, gradually got thrown a few files, you know, totally out of my depth.
Lachlan Edwards
And then and then, you know, a role for a lawyer came up.
So I applied for that and got that.
And that was, I was really grateful for that.
Excellent.
So I did that for probably 2 years, yes.
And then Penny, my wife I think four years, three years of as an occupational therapist.
And actually what she wanted to do was go to Whistler or to Canada and do adaptive sports, right?
Yep.
So if you don't know what adaptive sports is, it's basically helping people who can't do a sport to do it right?
As simple as that, right.
So a good example was somebody who lives in a wheelchair hiking them to the top of a mountain.
And I'm like, how the heck do you do that?
And she's like, well, we just find a way, you know?
So that's awesome.
So basically we went and did that and I had a year break from, you know, being a lawyer.
Yep.
So what do I do?
I scan tickets.
I stack shelves in the supermarket.
I sold tickets on the peak to Peak at Whistler.
Kris Tatt
Awesome, great experience like.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, yeah.
And I also worked as a journalist for the first time ever, so yeah.
Kris Tatt
Did that, did that submit that you'd made the right call to be a lawyer or?
Lachlan Edwards
I didn't mind it.
Yeah, but my, you know what you call the radar?
Like most professions, you've got to have your radar to know you're right and wrong and figure things out that just wasn't there.
Yes.
And that was probably six months worth.
And I grew up pretty quickly.
But, you know, thinking about.
All right, well, here's the story, but the editor's like, but what's your angle?
Where are you gonna make it interesting.
Right.
Go and write the boring story.
Yes.
So developing that was really was a really interesting intellectual part of it.
Yep, yeah.
Kris Tatt
But I think now people come with an angle and then find a story to fill the angle rather.
Lachlan Edwards
Than possibly or just yeah.
Kris Tatt
Anyway, it's a topic for another time.
We won't get into that gust.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you're off in Canada.
You didn't think this is it?
We're gonna put down stumps here and just.
Lachlan Edwards
Maybe, yeah, but because.
Kris Tatt
It's a beautiful, beautiful part of the world.
Lachlan Edwards
Well, yeah, and, you know, cold, but we lived in, it was to go to the snow, right?
So we lived in the ski hills and my boss who ran the paper and there was four of us, you know, if there was ever a powder day, snow overnight and he was like, don't come in till 10:00, go and enjoy it, get the first lift.
So I love it.
So that was really cool, but it wasn't fun walking to work over AK and 1/2 in -29.
Kris Tatt
So you you can really say to your kids, I walked through the snow to work, don't complain.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, my kids, they'll be like, whatever, Dad.
Yeah.
Kris Tatt
Yeah, OK, there you go.
Quite an experience.
Lachlan Edwards
Well, it was fun, yeah.
And it was about kind of rediscovering that, but also discovering, well, I'm not sure that was what I wanted to do, stack shelves and and scan tickets.
And that wasn't for me.
And there's still a lot of people I know over there who are still doing that and having a great time.
Right?
Yeah, Yeah.
And then then there are Times Now as a business owner and where I think maybe I should have stuck with it just.
Kris Tatt
I could just be stacking shelves and skiing on the slopes.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, yeah.
But so anyway, I got this email back in the day when you emailed your friends.
Remember that when you sent your mate's emails.
Kris Tatt
Yes, yeah.
And it was exciting to get one.
Lachlan Edwards
And you wrote on Facebook, what's happening, right?
So this was then.
Kris Tatt
But now you get an email.
Yeah.
Like, it's just it's one of 100.
Yeah, it's.
Lachlan Edwards
Just junk in the in the inbox.
But yes, it was a former colleague was like such and such is left.
Would you come back So I reached out and and got that same job I had back.
Yep.
Yeah.
So so I came back.
Yeah, did.
Kris Tatt
Penny come with you or did?
Lachlan Edwards
She stayed for a bit.
I came back and the plan was then to come back.
And I don't know, we didn't really have a long term plan until about probably five or six years later when, you know, you grow up and you follow that journey of living in Melbourne where you gradually, gradually move out into the suburbs.
And that just wasn't for us, right?
Yep.
Yeah.
Because it wasn't what we knew and our passions weren't there.
And, you know, we had kids and couldn't do the things like go out on a Monday night to a gig and, yes, have a pub meal, that kind of thing.
That just wasn't as achievable anymore.
So.
Kris Tatt
Things do change when when the kids come wrong, don't they?
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, yeah.
So basically I was like, well, let's move somewhere between, in regional Victoria, between, you know, where the two, our two families are.
So Bendigo is one of those locations.
My sister's here.
Yeah, nice here.
And, and yeah, I reached out to my friend Alex, who runs Pogo Espresso, said, hey, do you know any lawyers in town?
He said, yeah, I know there's two people.
One of them I reached out to, didn't respond.
The other one was Marika McMahon, who's now my business partner and realised everyone knows Marika.
So and and you know, before this, doing this pod with you, I look back at those emails just to like think back and reflect and yeah, it's been been six years and yeah, wow.
Caught up with Marika, came down here for a 2 hour interview with Russell Robertson.
Yep.
And you know, it was, he was, you know, come down then we'll have a chat.
So we go into the boardroom and then, you know, we just get talking right.
Like a house on fire just like this.
Yeah, yeah.
And then he's like, all right, well, I better go now.
And I look at my watch, I'm like, it's 5:00, we need to get back to Melbourne.
So yeah, it landed on my feet there and.
Kris Tatt
Excellent.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, the rest is history, I suppose.
Kris Tatt
So what?
What year was that?
Lachlan Edwards
2019 OK.
Kris Tatt
Yeah, good time to move just before lockdowns and everything like that.
Lachlan Edwards
Totally, yeah.
And you know, in hindsight, we should have just bought a place and moved down.
But actually the coincidence with that was the previous job I had.
Yep, I was working with a woman, Diane.
Yep.
And I said, oh, we're moving to Bend.
You go, oh, my nephew lives there.
And I said, oh, yeah, cool, we're moving on this street.
And she said, I don't know where it is.
I'm like, I'll show you, you know, it could be his house.
And it was, you know.
So that was a nice little nice connection.
Kris Tatt
To me, yeah, nice.
Very good.
And so obviously you didn't come in as a director.
No, you came here, then you've cut your teeth for a few years and gone from there.
So that's right.
How have you, how have you found the transition to Bendigo to the regional sort of things?
Business is still business at the end of the day.
Lachlan Edwards
Yep, great.
I mean, Bendigo's such a wonderful cosmopolitan city, right?
You've got what you need.
You've got the arts, you've got sport, you've got, you've got everything, right?
And if you need to duck down to Melbourne for for a day or whatever, you can do that.
Kris Tatt
It's right.
And it's not that far.
Like I was talking to a client yesterday, I said the the trip down is probably similar to some people's commutes just to get into the city.
So it's not, it's not actually that far at the end of the day.
It's just more of a direct rundown than away you go.
Yeah.
So let's talk a bit about now as a commercial lawyer, how, how are you helping clients?
Because I think everyone and we talked, we probably touched on a little bit of that in your day to day, which I loved because I think some people go what, what, what do people do day to day?
Do they just do the computer and bash away?
It's like, no, no, no, we yes, according to my children, there is an element of that.
I actually heard someone say 01 of the kids used to say, oh, they'll just shuffle papers.
That's their job.
And in some ways there, there is some truth to that, which sort of hurts a little bit, but there is there is a whole lot of other things that that go, go around shuffling that paper.
So how are some of the ways that you help clients?
And I know we've caught up and talked a little bit about that business journey for clients and sort of the business journey they're going.
So I'd love to hear a bit about that, that journey that you see for clients and then sort of how we help with each stage along the way.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, sure.
So I think like a lot of the work I will do will be with people when they're starting a business.
Yep.
So a lot of that's actually getting the structure right often with primarily with accounts, Yep, figuring that out, making sure it's set up correctly yes, your business structure called whether that's a company or a trust.
And then a bit of what I call the insurance work, which is ownership agreements between partners to set out what are our expectations here, who's gonna do what and what happens if it doesn't work out because.
Kris Tatt
And I think, I think some of that at the start is undervalued because I think sometimes people are jumping into a new business, they're excited about getting going, We'll sort out the details later.
Let's just go.
But the details are actually quite important at the start because if you don't get it right, I think that's where issues can come down the track because it's here's what we agreed to do.
And at some point something could go off the rails.
Sometimes it won't and that's great.
Then other times it will go disastrously so I imagine.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, there's a decent chunk of my work which is helping people navigate exits from business.
Yes, business break UPS.
Kris Tatt
Exits are a lot easier if the entry's smooth though, isn't it?
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, they can be.
I mean, if you don't have something that sets out how the exit's gonna work, an agreement, then then it can be really painful.
Yeah.
You know, you have a person leaving thinking their their value of the business is worth a fortune and the people staying saying, well, no, it's not actually.
And and you didn't do all of this and that we want to pay you out over 10 years and and etcetera.
So.
Kris Tatt
So what are what are some of the things you see people need to consider when they're setting up the structure?
Let's start with the structure, and then we can talk about the agreements as well too.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, well, what do you want to achieve?
Do you know what I mean?
And and where does the risk lie?
Right.
So you might have people on their own or in a relationship and you've got to think about, well, do we need to set up a company?
Could you be a sole trader?
Do we need to set up two companies where all of your business ideas are kept in one and then all the risky activity you do sits over in the other one?
Is that overkill?
You know, do we need to set up a trust, which you might actually just use to, well, for tax effectiveness?
Yes, to put it that way.
Yes.
So you can distribute income to individuals.
Yep.
Yeah.
So things like that and then also.
Kris Tatt
So really understanding and for people to have a vision of where they want to take the business, because I think that's exactly because if you want to be big, it's a lot easier to get that right at the start than to try and deal with that down the track.
But you don't want compliance and legal overkill if you just just like this is all this is, is just going to be me doing my own thing.
Lachlan Edwards
And the risk is low.
Yep, Yep.
Kris Tatt
Now that's really good.
And in on terms of the agreement side, I assume that's more when there's more than one person involved.
I assume I wouldn't have to write an agreement with myself, but if.
Lachlan Edwards
I heard people marry themselves.
Kris Tatt
Yeah.
Oh, really?
Lachlan Edwards
I'm not a family lawyer, so I don't.
Kris Tatt
Know if it's legal but.
Lachlan Edwards
No, the answer is no, Chris.
Kris Tatt
Yeah, excellent.
So but if people are going in together and I think that's where that's where you start basing problems, isn't it?
Cuz one side one side has different expectations to the other or one side might.
Lachlan Edwards
As they say, 2's company, 3's a crowd, right?
So 2, if you and I, if we're gonna set up something, we're generally gonna agree on things before they happen, right?
Excellent.
We probably just want a mechanism for if something happens unexpected, how we would buy you out or pay you out or whatever, right?
That's what the agreement will do.
So you pass away unexpectedly.
You've got insurance to make sure that I can buy you out and your, your family, your estate's looked after, right?
Kris Tatt
And I think that's one of the things people don't always think about is what are those other events?
It's not on the, an exit from we've had a dust up and we're no longer friends or business partners.
We're just doing our own thing.
What are all those other events that the car crash, the you know, that, that unexpected turn, the, the, the heart attack or the stroke or something like that, that all of a sudden means I, I can't be in the business.
And you're sitting there left holding the bag going, well, now I've got to pay at your part plus try and run it and vice versa.
That that cross insurance is, is part of it, but there's also agreements that go around that isn't it.
So it's not just having the insurance, it's making sure the understanding of why.
Lachlan Edwards
Is that the agreement's part of your insurance cover?
Because it sets out your process, right?
And you can always agree outside of that to something different, but you've got it to fall back on because if you don't have it to fall back on, you've got nothing.
Kris Tatt
Right, and that's one thing.
Lachlan Edwards
You can't force someone to agree to something, is what I say to people.
Yep, Sometimes you've got leverage, sometimes you don't, right.
So that's probably the first part of the business owner journey.
Yep, the next part is all right, well, you're going and you're set up.
What do we need to actually help you now to set you up for success as you keep going?
So for example, is a I've had a problem and I've discovered I actually need a privacy policy or I need a drug and alcohol policy in my workplace.
Yep, sometimes it's more proactive.
Like you come to me Chris and you say, hey, I sell coffee cups, I manufacture them.
I actually just need an agreement that I give to my customers, my suppliers, that sets out what my expectations are around payment terms and and protects me if they they go bust and don't pay me.
Kris Tatt
Things like that and that that can be hard if you don't have that agreement and you've got someone that owes you a lot of money to try and call you back.
Lachlan Edwards
Isn't it?
Yeah.
Cooked.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, to put to use the legal term.
Kris Tatt
Yeah, yeah.
And, but I think sometimes those finer details are missed in the midst, like business is busy and there's a lot of other things going on.
And sometimes people don't always remember to, to do the paperwork or to do those things.
That or just take that 5 minutes of court due diligence or whatever you want to call it, say, if we're engaging this person and they're going to owe you money, make sure you've got something in place.
Otherwise there's no way to claw that back, which is where you can run into problems.
And then and then I would assume not, not that, not that we don't want to give you work, but it creates a lot more work for you writing letters and doing things that that.
Yeah, well, that could have been sort of avoided if.
Lachlan Edwards
Exactly.
Yeah, A lot of that stuff isn't actually helping you with success.
It's distracting you from spending time on building your business and growth, right?
Kris Tatt
And I love that because distraction is one of the biggest killers of it.
And we've got phone, whatever.
There's too many distractions already.
Family.
Yeah.
Not that they're all bad distractions, but just in terms of the time you actually have to do really good.
Yeah.
Business work exactly is diminished more and more.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, and my philosophy with people.
So say someone comes to me and says I'm owed 20 grand by these people.
I've dealt with them for many years.
They're generally pretty good payers, but now they're kind of giving me the runaround.
Yep.
So I'd be saying a lawyer would say here's your options, I'll write them a letter of demand that'll cost you X, then we go to the Magistrates Court and we'll get your money back plus some of my costs.
Kris Tatt
Messy, messy, messy.
Lachlan Edwards
Well, my approach is, OK, well, what's the cost benefit of this?
OK.
And think about your time as a business owner in terms of productivity loss.
What's your hourly rate?
OK, so all this time I'm gonna spend, you're gonna spend that too, right?
Yes.
And you're gonna lose, potentially lose opportunities and the ability, let alone the stress and the positivity you get with running your business, you're going to be pulled back a bit.
So is there a cost benefit in that?
Yep.
Not that I don't want to run your Magistrates Court case, but we need to think about the ultimate objective, right?
Kris Tatt
But I think too that sometimes what people don't always think about is that opportunity cost.
If I, if I get the ducks in a row right at the start or I do I do a little bit extra at the start, it can save me a heck of a lot of heartache down the track where I'm actually, I'm not working to grow the business.
I'm actually working just to protect what what I've already done or, or bring that money in that that I should have.
That should have just happened a lot easier.
Lachlan Edwards
So, and Hartsite's wonderful.
And I think if you do find yourself in that situation where something's gone wrong, you don't miss the opportunity to think, how could I have done it better in the 1st place and can I do that now, right.
So all right.
Well, actually I need these terms with payers going by my customers going forward because I've had this one problem, right.
Kris Tatt
So I love that, that, that, you know, it's not just at the start, but as, as they're growing, it's how do we, how do we put the measures in place so that we don't have a roadblock or, or a barrier in the future and we can continue to grow exponentially?
What, what problems do you see or that you're helping clients with when they're scaling?
Like as they start to get bigger, you know, you start out small, then you start adding staff, then it starts, you know, the, the job that you were doing when you first started looks nothing like the job you're doing now.
And it feels like you're running around in circles.
What are some of the things that you're coming in and helping in those instances with?
Lachlan Edwards
That's probably more about your people and their well being, putting infrastructure around that.
So you might have business owners that are growing and still trying to do their core work, but also manage their business and their people at the same time.
So that's where you're probably having employment related issues, which might be something happens at the Christmas party.
I've got two people who don't get along.
I've got performance issues with this staff member.
What on earth do I do?
Some people have to say to them it's not the 80s anymore, you can't just sack them.
Kris Tatt
Yes, I.
Lachlan Edwards
Don't work like that anymore, unfortunately for some, yes, yeah, that that's probably the big thing as we see this scale up for.
Kris Tatt
Is is the people people problems?
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, because you're only as good as your people, right?
Kris Tatt
Yes, yeah, correct.
Yeah.
And so you're, you're there, if I look at it from your support, you're, you're coming in and say, well, what measures can we put in place?
What, what agreements do we need to make sure we've got there for, for staff, you know, and things like that?
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, a bit of, it's actually reactive.
Some of it could be governance work around.
All right, Well, we're going to go to the next, you know, for the next 5 years.
Our strategic plan is to build from 10 staff to 50.
What do we need to do?
OK, let's look at governance.
We'll look at culture as well.
Yep.
You know, I can give you advice on that because governance and strategy and culture are one of my interests.
It's probably not strictly a legal thing, yes, but we would look at it that way.
Kris Tatt
But it does, it probably does help maybe avoid some legal issues down the track.
And I think sometimes people, people discount culture.
Yeah.
When culture can actually be the difference between having a team that runs without drama and a team that has constant drama and issues going on.
Exactly.
Yeah, no, that's really good.
And then obviously businesses can go through a life cycle, but also the business owners can go through a life cycle.
So sometimes you can have a business that's growing and at some point the business owner says, you know, when I'm done or I'd like to retire, I'd like to exit.
And there's probably a few different off ramps for a business owner, isn't there?
Some of it is.
We just close everything up.
Lachlan Edwards
Yep.
Kris Tatt
Another one might be I wanna a succession plan to a child or to an employee or another one might be I'm selling, I'm getting out.
So and you'll and that's where you, you probably come in and do a lot of work around that sort as well.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, the the business succession fascinates me, particularly where.
Kris Tatt
Why is that?
Lachlan Edwards
It's not commercial, it's deep seated emotion for people and it's it's a.
Kris Tatt
Little bit like the family home, isn't it?
Like you can say all day, this makes the best financial decision or this makes the best whatever, but there's still a sentimental.
Lachlan Edwards
Connection to it and I really love doing that work because you're helping people through that that side of things.
But you do have to take a commercial and emotional lens to it, yes, because you have people who have particular views about what's fair in and you're not often taking a commercial approach to.
Well, Chris, you're selling your business to me based on the market valuation of $5,000,000.
It's.
Well, Chris, you've been a great son of mine, so I'm gonna give you my business if you just take on my $1,000,000 overdraft, for example.
Yeah.
And then Chris has a brother or sister.
Kris Tatt
I've actually got 21 brother and two.
Lachlan Edwards
Sisters.
So yeah.
And how do you look after them?
Yes.
OK.
And then there's also.
Kris Tatt
Probably all sitting crossed arm on the side going well, where's out?
Why?
Looking after him.
Where's?
Actually, Yeah, this is our inheritance.
What are you doing?
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, yeah.
And sometimes you get into the arguing over who got more lunch money in Grade 8, and you've got to bring people back to what's your objective?
Kris Tatt
We're not a great at anymore, so yeah.
Lachlan Edwards
What's your objective?
And you know, I'm here for you, but we need to think about what what the ultimate objective is.
Yep.
Yeah.
Kris Tatt
Do you what?
What do you see works best when people are exiting?
Is it succession?
Is it?
Is it selling?
Do you see many that just close the doors and say this is all too hard?
Lachlan Edwards
Depends on what you want.
Like you don't often have people closing the doors.
People will hand over a business Yep on pretty favourable terms to whoever's taking it on Yep, which, you know, carries risk for them.
But a lot of people actually just want their business in good hands, which is totally understandable.
Kris Tatt
Yeah, it's they've spent years working on it and they just want to see that it gets looked after.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah.
And the business is?
Kris Tatt
A bit like having that classic car and just wanting to make sure whoever's got it next just looks after it and then doesn't, doesn't just go and put it into a wall or something like that.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, I mean, it's tricky when you have people who know each other well and sell their business.
So it's.
You've got this commercial lens to it, but there's a level of personal familiarity between them.
And so my job to add value is to say, well, look, here's how I'd be advising you if you didn't know this person, let's say it's Bunnings, is buying your business.
Kris Tatt
Removing the emotion from it.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, the objectivity and, and, and look, I understand you don't want to do that.
That's what as long as you know and you've weighed up that risk and we've talked about it's a low risk, it's a high risk.
It's it's moderate, it's extreme.
It's yes, whatever.
Kris Tatt
In terms of handing over businesses, do many people plan ahead or do you think they just sort of there's a, they just reach a day where they go, I need to get out?
Lachlan Edwards
Probably, yeah.
There's an event or a timing, or some people do, Yep.
Kris Tatt
What in term contrasting those two planning ahead and I'm more talking for our listeners who might be out there thinking about, well, I'm not ready to sell right now, but do I need to start getting ready?
It's a bit like planning for retirement.
You can either do it when you retire or you can sort of start putting some things in place and probably feel a lot better about the day that you do retire.
Do you see a contrast between the reactive I've got to sell to want to get ready and and do this well, I.
Lachlan Edwards
Think most people that come to me outside the family based business succession will have prepared themselves relatively well rather than getting to the end and getting to the drop dead date and being like this place is a mess.
Most people will have a time and they will have their advisors, their trusted advisors, whether it's me or an accountant like you or a financial advisor, whatever, or their their business coach.
And they will have gotten their business to a point where there's the best place that can possibly right.
And they will have had their advice around.
Or once I get paid a certain amount of money for my business, what's going to happen to that?
You know, I'm going to have to get concessions on capital gains tax, for example.
What do I do with transferring and selling properties and things like that?
Kris Tatt
All those other pieces around it as well too it.
Lachlan Edwards
Could be a 5 or 10 year run up for some people to start those conversations, yeah.
Kris Tatt
And there can be a handover of staff to whoever's buying as well and those kind of things too, isn't there?
And so there's all all of how that looks.
Lachlan Edwards
And identifying those potential successes and putting in place, you know, the, the infrastructure they might need.
Yeah.
Kris Tatt
Lot to navigate.
At the end of the day, what what is what is one thing that you see people do poorly when they're thinking about selling or succession planning or just haven't put on their radar that they probably should.
Lachlan Edwards
They probably just come in to me and say I'm selling my business, but I haven't really done anything.
It's just I've reached that date where I'm ready to sell, but there's been no preparation and they haven't considered some of the big issues.
Like, for example, let's say you have a retail shop and there's 500 grand worth of stock, right?
And we're working through a contract to say, well, they're going to buy all the stock.
And we put an offer to the other side with the contract.
And they say, well, we don't want half this stock.
It's all old and obsolete.
There's open containers.
And you think, right, well, there's 250 grand shaved off off our our price.
So the preparation's really important for that, Yeah.
Kris Tatt
So thinking about what you're actually going to be selling and how that looks and.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah.
And what it's marketable value is?
Kris Tatt
And how to make it attractive to whoever the buyer might be.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah.
Kris Tatt
Let's talk.
And I love, love the love what we've talked about so far.
Have you got some examples of, of how you've helped clients through some of these, these steps in the journey?
And, and obviously we're not here to divulge names and things like that.
So no, no, no, but but it, but I'd love to hear some of some of the examples or just some of the, the learnings that real life examples.
So I think everyone sort of hears, hears those and goes, I, I, I really resonate with them.
So yeah.
Lachlan Edwards
Yes, confidentiality is important, so keep it generally.
But I did find this actually and it made me think of an example.
Kris Tatt
I was wondering about this book.
What's this book?
Lachlan Edwards
I was actually in the cupboard and I was looking for a mouse pattern and there it was.
But.
Kris Tatt
The horse and the law.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, I don't profess to be a horse law specialist.
Kris Tatt
Right.
So this is all just about horse law.
Lachlan Edwards
Allegedly.
Kris Tatt
I didn't know there was a whole whole thing just for for horses.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah.
And So what happened in this is one example, right?
So this is an example of two people who decided to buy.
Kris Tatt
It's got a, It's got a something ripped off, looks like a very old calendar with 1980 written on it.
That is, That is.
Lachlan Edwards
Someone might be coming back to get that.
You better leave it.
Kris Tatt
Yeah, I will take that in there.
I'm very intrigued.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, well, going through the journey of of nurses and some problems they can have, it's two people decide relatively friend on a relatively friendly basis to buy something together.
In this case it was a horse and you know, breed, breed horses for sale, right.
No consideration of around how that might actually work.
We're just handshake agreement, right?
It fell out because one person decided to do something different was potentially syphoning off assets that were part of the what we might just call the partnership.
And then, you know, you come in and you try and help them kind of draw a line in the sand and say, well, give me what I'm entitled to.
Yes.
And how you value that, Right?
So that's a good example.
So, you know, breeding five horses, how do you value that?
And what about future loss of profits?
Kris Tatt
And this is this is one of the things that not everyone understands is it's not, there's not just a easy way to value a business.
You can't just go, well, we made this so it's worth this.
So, well, there's there's quite a few other bits and pieces at play within that.
Yeah.
So.
Lachlan Edwards
My experience is you'll get 5 business valuations and they'll all be different.
They might use different formulas, they might add in and exclude certain things like the wages the owners take or the depreciation of machinery in a particular year.
Yep.
So there's certainly very different ways that it can be spun, but that's a good example of where, you know, if you'd set things up right at the start and you took a bit more of a commercial approach, I mean, you don't have to.
It was friendly, right?
And that's all good.
But if you figured out at the start, right, we need an agreement on how this is going to end and what's going to happen, yes, that's a good example of that one.
And we wouldn't have ended up in court and having a fight with someone.
Kris Tatt
So this is a this is a real thriller for for for lawyers, probably.
Lachlan Edwards
Probably not for it's dynamic, right?
It's it's a similar formula, but it's also, well, OK, well, the subject matters.
Interesting.
Kris Tatt
Available on Amazon.
We might put it in there.
We might put a link in the show notes.
But it might.
It might be how.
Lachlan Edwards
Do the copyrights run out and I can I could write it myself 70 years.
Kris Tatt
Sort that out there you go.
But I think that's one of the things is some of these issues aren't like people think the new issues or or now problems, but they've been been around for probably generations in terms of a lot of these things are dealing with disputes and that.
And that's, Yep, that's been a problem since, Yeah, yeah.
Lachlan Edwards
Exactly.
Yep, there's a lot of dispute work.
Another example actually from my old job I think we talked about this one was where I helped a young Iraqi man.
He'd come to Australia and couldn't speak much English at all.
Yep, and he bought a used car from a car lot in Melbourne.
Yep, it was a lemon.
So we wrote to the car dealer and said, hey, give us a refund, right?
There are these legal guarantees under a law, which basically you get what you pay for, right?
Yes.
Outside the statutory warranty, which is what you know, the dealer says no warranty.
Rah, rah, rah.
Yep.
OK, All right, we're off to VCAT.
So the tribunal, it can make a decision.
The car dealer self represents.
That's fine.
We get to the hearing.
He's sitting across from the table from me on the table like this and just being very lovely.
I'm thinking, no, you're not.
You're not a lovely person.
You give this person a refund if you were.
Anyhow, so we get about halfway through the first day and we've got our expert car mechanic there saying, well, yet this was an absolute lemon.
Yep.
And then we're making our submissions.
Why?
Based on that evidence that it's a lemon, the law should give us a refund, right.
So we finish our side of the story out.
OK, so I rest my case.
Not quite.
And and the car dealer gets up and he says, well, I disagree for all this and Wittering on for a couple of hours and then by the end of the day about 4:30 and court normally finishes at about four 430.
Yep.
So we'd already kind of gone over time and he's like, but that guy over there, the the lawyer who was sitting next to me because there was two of us.
Well, he agreed with me to resolve this case.
So we had a problem because we didn't agree to that.
So lawyers can't be witnesses for their own clients.
You have to be independent.
Kris Tatt
Yes.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, yeah.
And they have, yeah.
Kris Tatt
So a real curveball that, yeah, was not correct, but needed to then be proved one way or the other, which I think that's people discount that sometimes, don't they, in disputes is that people are gonna be honest and people are just gonna be straightforward.
And now he's good, mate.
It'll be fine.
Where when the chips are down, yeah, you don't know what people are going to say or what people are going to do.
Lachlan Edwards
So we had to say to the the judge that called a member in VCAT, I think we need to stand adjourned for the day and come back tomorrow.
So we go back to the office and and figure out, well, can we still act for this person, this young person who probably didn't quite grasp what had gone on during the day.
Yep, respectfully and couldn't speak much English.
And so there was a second day of the hearing the next day, right?
We're gonna have, can we show up ethically?
We can't be a witness and advocate for him.
Yeah.
So what are we gonna do?
And in the end, we'd made the call that we'd sub out.
Kris Tatt
Just for all those listeners, lawyers do have ethical dilemmas.
Lachlan Edwards
Very humorous.
Yeah, confidentiality is a big one, but this was more like, OK, well, you know, can you work within the ethical rules for the administration of justice, you know, to get the right outcome?
So we had that lawyer step aside.
Another lawyer jumped in with me.
That lawyer, Michael, was his name, Michael Hermitage.
Hope you're listening.
Retired lawyer, Great influence on my career.
Yep.
Michael hops in the witness box, and so he has to go in there and explain.
Well, no, there was no agreement.
And in the end, we won, Yeah, because the car dealer wasn't the used car dealer wasn't very credible.
Would you believe that?
Kris Tatt
Yeah, I yeah, I would actually not, not at all.
Used car dealers.
That's right.
I've.
Lachlan Edwards
Got clients who are used car dealers?
They're good.
Kris Tatt
People from my, from my, from my dealings with people is.
Trust your intuition if something seems a bit suspect.
Lachlan Edwards
Yeah, yeah.
So that was a really, you know, there is the best way to be a commercial lawyer, understand what your clients objectives are, but also know that the work you're going to do, like the documents I, I draught the people are going to be marked by a judge.
There's nothing quite like having a judge sitting there looking at you, judging you in the same room.
Yeah.
Kris Tatt
No, that's good, very good.
Do you have any last take home messages for people who might be thinking about growing their business and thinking what what you know, what do I need to come and say lucky?
Do I?
Is there something like I'm missing?
What what do you think?
Because I think that's the big one for people is succession makes sense.
I want to get out.
But for those people who are in the midst of the busyness of business, you can have you can have the blinders on you run down the road, weeks roll into months roll into years and all of a sudden you're going like that thing I should have done.
And I'll use, I'll use my example.
We, we didn't, we, my wife and I've been married for many years and we hadn't done it well yet.
And we like the, the kids started coming along and we're going probably need to do this.
And it still took a bit of time to actually get around to doing it.
And it was like if we if we hadn't done that, then there's there's a whole raft of issues that could popped up otherwise.
So yeah, yeah.
Is there things for people, any last takeover messages for those people who are in the midst of business, who are busy?
Yeah, Who are probably listening to this while they're doing three other things?
Yeah.
What?
What what are what are some of those things that you see they miss or that they should be looking out for?
Lachlan Edwards
I think it's, it's, it's a bit more simple than that.
Like, so if you're looking to start or grow your business, yeah, you need to go to your trusted advisors, right?
Yes.
And you don't know what you don't know when you don't know about something, Yes.
So you go to your professional advisor who has expertise and they can spot issues for you.
Yes.
And my advice might be, I think you should do this.
At least you know about it and you can make a valued judgement call on whether that's the right thing to do for you and you just don't know about something that you've totally missed 15 years.
Kris Tatt
Later.
So the big question is, what am I missing?
Is there anything I need to be aware of?
Yep Yep, Yep, love it.
And I think that's The thing is you don't know what you don't know.
And and that's that's where we come in to provide that different lands in perspective.
And yeah, so that's excellent.
Lachlan Edwards
But ultimately, you know, you might do a 12 month business plan, but where do you want to be in five, 1015 years?
What's what's your strategy to get there?
Can we add value to that along the way?
Yeah, I'm not going to upsell you to do things that are a waste of your time and and mine.
I don't want to do that.
No.
What's the point?
Kris Tatt
And, and I think that's one of the things we talk about with clients regularly is that we're not here to make things complicated, But if we see an opportunity, we want to put it in front of you because it may be the last time we can do it or it may not make as much sense.
Yeah, two or three degrees down the track.
Or it may even be more pertinent that in two or three years down the track, when there's a problem and you go, why didn't you do that?
Yeah, well, we did talk about it so.
Lachlan Edwards
And I say to clients when I meet with them for the first time, stop me if I'm talking legal mumbo jumbo.
And if you've got a question, just interrupt me.
Ask it.
I don't weigh it.
Yep, Yep.
Kris Tatt
Knowing is half the battle.
Lachlan Edwards
I want to talk like a lawyer.
I want to talk like a human being.
Kris Tatt
Love it.
Yeah.
And I think that's a good, good, good, good, good, good.
Last message there.
Like I said, thank you for that.
Thank you for coming up today.
Pleasure.
Loved hearing the journey.
Love that we've got some reading material for our listeners if they're if they.
Lachlan Edwards
Maybe I could sign it and give it to you?
Kris Tatt
You know what?
I'd love that because you have never read that.
Lachlan Edwards
Well, there's no finders keepers rule in the law, so.
Kris Tatt
Yeah, love it.
I've.
Lachlan Edwards
Stolen it from someone.
Kris Tatt
Very good.
Well, thank you so much Lucky for coming on.
Thank you for just giving a bit of insight into what a commercial lawyer does and how they add value to businesses.
And I think for anyone out there who is thinking about starting in the middle of growing or thinking about selling, make sure you get the right people in the room having the right discussion.
I think that's one of the biggest things.
So thank you so much.
Lucky, really appreciate it.
And yeah, thank you to everyone listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.
Lachlan Edwards
Good on you, Chris.
Thanks.
